"Sense business wise" seems to vary quite a bit nowadays, at least every other day there's a headline of a company on here doing something almost exclusively for short-term value at the detriment to long-term health.

The proximity of this and Bitnami pulling their 'free hardened images' is amusing, and I'm just as concerned about another (eventual, but imminent) rug-pull down the line. Docker Inc historically seems comfortable with the typical VC/"growth"-fueled strat of:

1. 'generous' initial offering to establish a userbase/ecosystem/network-effect

2. "oh teehee we're actually gonna have to start charging for that sorry we know that you've potentially built a lot of your infrastructure around this thing"

3. $$$

We just moved a bunch of infra off of Bitnami images and Charts; we won't be making that mistake again, and Docker is the worst culprit.

Depends on bot-detection and if its a CPC or CPA campaign

I was gonna say, I miss when this is what headlines looked like in my country.

??? why does any company do it? Money?

Any company?

Don't you think if Kagi introduced spyware it would ruin their reputation quickly, why would Kagi want to quickly ruin that brand reputation?

The answer is that there is no incentive for 'spyware' on Orion as you can pay for Orion+ to support development.

https://kagi.com/onboarding?p=orion_plan

My concern is Kagi isn't/doesn't make as much as they need/hope to with their brand model. If they are ever disappointed in the results of building their brand, it's quite easy to see why they would be fine selling out.

Hell, WhatsApp started out as a privacy focused messaging app before selling out to Facebook/Meta. Now it's getting ads, nobody believes a privacy focus anymore, it's had a commercial message channel push, and so on. They are far from the first example of a tech company/product trading the mission/brand value for more money.

Bless the VLC developer for refusing offers for millions of dollars to put crap in VLC even though he knows the project could just be forked after and bless Gorhill for the same on uBO but the real trust in these things comes from the code being open source rather than faith the developers would never sell out.

> I'm assuming the people who are asking for Orion to be open source are not paying for it.

I think this is an odd/slightly-disingenuous statement.

I mean, I'm on linux, so I'm not, I'm happily paying for kagi though, and would pay for Orion+ if it was available to me :)

I would also very much like it if Orion was open source, it would make me feel a lot better committing to and recommending a browser if I had actual assurances it's behaving appropriately, beyond a company saying "trust me", no matter how nice/cool they seem at the time.

Honestly, I kinda wish Orion+ was the only option, I think having a free option (and the incentives that can create) is kind of antithetical to Kagi's whole raison detre.

> I would also very much like it if Orion was open source, it would make me feel a lot better committing to and recommending a browser if I had actual assurances it's behaving appropriately, beyond a company saying "trust me", no matter how nice/cool they seem at the time.

Kagi isn't 100% open source but you still use it and recommend it?

How do you know they aren't spying on the backend?

There's not really a reasonable local alternative to running something like Kagi, so one kind of just have to hope for the best with the least shady looking option or not use web search at all. It would be nice if they at least had a 3rd party audit validate their privacy claims... but Kagi is at least a step in a better direction than any common search option, even if they might still actually be spying on you for all you know (and keep that in mind if you choose to use it).

The same is not true of browsers, to the extent you can even build/use privacy conscious versions of Google's browser project because Chromium is open source! To trade that away for closed source on the promise of another company who was only able to build a browser because of an open source engine is an unnecessary step backwards and should be bothering people, as much as Kagi appears like the nice company for now.

Well, paying money for consumer apps/services (besides games) has always seemed a bit more normalized in the iOS ecosystem, and I imagine it must be a _somewhat_ simpler interface than the lovecruftian monolith of windows-N

saying this as a Linux user, I've never owned an apple device in my life (nor do I want to)

AFAIK, you can't pay for Kagi in Apple ecosystem. Users of both platforms have to visit their web page.

Oh man, I first looked at this project what feels like _forever_ ago and remember thinking--almost verbatim, "Wow I wish I could see this 5 years from now", and lo and behold I suppose it has been about that long!

Very happy to see it finally hit 1.0

There's a batch of dialog that indicates an interest in 'digital sovereignty', so it sounds like they are less interested in being an explicit customer of a given company.

You can do that by self hosting the code.

My point was that you don't need to compete with paid features, just please give the developers money to develop the software further (and fix bugs/issues), so e.g. buy some 'enterprise license', even if you don't need it in terms of features.

This kind of comment is better suited to reddit, or twitter, rather than HN.

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