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Solar is growing so fast that it is creating its own waste problem:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23...

What happens when we add the necessary batteries (to replace the nuclear base) to this problem?



This is one of the issues with solar power that gets overlooked. The physical 'stuff' needed to build a large solar farm is far more than a base nuclear plant.

After a quick search: Solar Panels Lifespan - ~25 years - Good

Grid Battery Lifespan - 5-10 years - ehh..

If we switched to 100% solar, with a majority of the equipment probably manufactured in China, there would be an orders of magnitude more physical product in the manufacturing and logistics pipeline.

...At least our top notch recycling programs will be able to handle all the waste product properly...


> Solar Panels Lifespan - ~25 years - Good

I don't know where these numbers come from but the solar panels on my house were installed about 20 years ago and have so far not shown any degradation assuming a 5% margin of error in measurement.


Nuclear plant lifespan - 75+ years - Best


In an environment of rapid technological change, a long lifespan has little value. Would you buy a PC because it was promised to last for 75 years?


Simply comparing lifespans is extremely misleading. We need to look at the potential risk associated with waste.

Solar panel waste: grind and reuse. Health risk: negligible.

Battery waste: empty, disassemble and reuse. Health risk: very moderate.

Nuclear waste: highly radioactive for thousands of years. No way to recovery leaks in the environment. Health risk: very high.


Here is a link: http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fue...

    > Battery waste: empty, disassemble and reuse. Health risk: very moderate.
How long are rare metals (used in some battery/electronics) toxic for? Indefinitely.

How long is nuclear waste toxic? 92% for 40 years, 0.2% for thousands of years.


Let me pull a pro nuclear style argument. Future batteries won't need rare earth metals. Actually this isn't a fair comparison. Batteries that don't need rare earth metals already exist today. Thorium reactors or next gen nuclear plants don't exist at all.


Kinda missing the point. We already live with way more dangerous material than nuclear. Only difference is that most toxic stuff kills us slowly, so we don't notice.

Even if new batteries are made of non toxic and recyclable materials, our phones, our electronic is littered with it. And future materials are probably going to be even more exotic.


Not only that, but the only reason nuclear waste is dangerous is that it's radioactive. That is, it's a radiating source of energy. In other words, nuclear waste is dangerous because it's full of unused energy.

The French use breeder reactors to extract this unused energy for more energy. We are literally choosing not to burn all of the nuclear material we have.

It's like taking a train that's got 20 cars full of coal, burning the coal in the first car, and then disposing the "waste coal" in the rest of the cars in a landfill while wringing our hands about the environmental problems that causes.

Future Breeder Reactor Plants on Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_reactor#Future_plants


> Solar panel waste: grind and reuse. Health risk: negligible.

Do you have a source that solar panels can simply be ground up and reused? The article linked in the top level comment implies that recycling solar panels is much harder that one might think, and that solar panels are full of toxic heavy metals that are not "negligible" health risk.


Seeing that completely dishonest article over and over again gets tiring. Cadmium telluride solar cells only make up 5% of the market and there is no reason they couldn't just be banned outright so that we only use the more environmentally friendly crystalline solar cells (which we already do).


Orders of magnitude different amounts of waste. The dose makes the poison.


That article is really misleading. It starts off talking about the need to recycle cadmium-based panels in order not to leech toxic cadmium into the environment, and then claims that recyling isn't economically viable - but if you click through the links, that claim is based on the economics of recycling Si-based panels that don't contain any cadmium. Indeed, the whole reason Si panels aren't economically viable to recycle is because they don't contain these kinds of exotic (and toxic) materials; recycling of the cadmium-containing panels is very much viable and commonplace.


Lead acid batteries have a recycling rate of around 100%. LiIon can be recycled with relative ease. This seems like a much easier problem to solve than PV cells or nuclear waste.


Ah, Shellenberger. Look at what he's saying and realize what his level of credibility should be.

You will notice that article is talking about cadmium from PV. Silicon PV, which has come to dominate the market (95+%) does not use cadmium. Nor does silicon PV require lead.

And he repeats the lie that PV uses rare earth elements!




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