Socializing children requires you to be around other children to play with, or get into conflict with. That's part of socializing. When you're homeschooling, it's much less likely you have a broad spectrum of other children to interact with, as when you go to an actual school.
If you think about it, the only scenario where that is actually useful is the corporate workplace.
Homeschooling children will interact with people in the context of their parents in all places in society their parents visit, and there are a wealth of groups and activities for the kids to join and interact with. Even better, the parents often have more direct insight into their childrens' interactions with others and can advise and support as necessary.
The whole 'needs socialising' claim is based on flawed assumptions, lest we assume all kids at school benefit socially from the environments they are in at school, which seems... optimistic.
Also, where else in society do you need to be measured in competence against other random local individuals of the exact same age?
They're not at school all day instead of with a parent/friend/relative/etc. Homeschooling is also not just doing the classroom at home, though that is how some parents unfortunately do it.
On the contrary, the school system groups kids from the same neighbourhoods and the same age together. Some schools also by religion. Homeschooled kids tend to mix with a broader range of ages and geographic basis.
> Homeschooled kids tend to mix with a broader range of ages and geographic basis.
or with none or only other members of a religious cult and definitely not the kind of children the parent are biased against
the idea that a homeschooling kid from e.g. a very conservative christian family will have a less segregated experience is just funny
> same neighborhood
one of many many more reasons why neighborhood segregation is a huge problem (independent of weather it's by ethnicity, religion or wealth)
> same age
one of the thinks some of the nordic countries did change (through their suicide rates are high, but that is more a problem with the geographic location, i.e. not getting much (or any) sun-light in winter).
their suicide rates are high, but that is more a problem with the geographic location, i.e. not getting much (or any) sun-light in winter).
That is mostly a myth. While suicide rather in the Nordic countries are slightly above the European average they're not the highest in Europe and below the US. Also the correlation between suicide and not getting enough sun light is at best very weak. If you cluster suicide data on a pr county level in Sweden for example, you'll find a very high correlation with unemployment levels and negative population growth and no correlation with how far north you are.
What you mention is just showing that economical distress and similar are a _bigger_ factor. But that only implies light is a very weak factor if you assume some trivial linear-ish relationship between factors. Through that is likely not the case. I.e. someone who is already in distress due to other factors is much more likely to not eat properly or take Vitamin D supplements or get out during the short time of the day where the sun is up or get more affected by short days making it harder to have a regular sleep rithm, especially if you are depressed enough to have problems getting out of the bad for hours etc.
Non of this does mean you are wrong, but also not that you are right. It's just way more complex and interlocked with other factors then just linear adding up some negative factors.
> Adults bully, too, so you do need to learn to handle it.
Eh, they do. But not nearly as frequently as children in my experience. I was tormented mercilessly in school, but I'm actually struggling to think of a single instance of bullying I've experienced as an adult. And I don't think that's because I "learnt to deal with it". I think it's partly because most bullies grow out of it, and partly because as an adult you're usually afforded the agency to leave situations where you're being bullied.
In my experience as a school student there is very little you can do about it beyond making yourself a small target which comes at a fairly high cost.
You can make it worse once it happens while being on the receiving end of a wildly hypocritical lecture about how the school "will not tolerate bullying". Standing up to organised group bullying is folly.
As an adult you have many more cards to play than that and everyone knows it even if they don't know which cards you have or which of those you're willing to play; the doubt surrounding potential consequences for picking on you counts for something.
Precisely none of that improvement in lived experience comes from "learning to deal with it" and "socialization"
> I think it's partly because most bullies grow out of it, and partly because as an adult you're usually afforded the agency to leave situations where you're being bullied.
It is because you can defend yourself. That's all there is to it. If you can defend yourself, people will not mess with you.
Parents that leave children into "schools" so they can get "bullied" and nobody protects them are committing cruelty of the highest order I can imagine.
> Parents that leave children into "schools" so they can get "bullied" and nobody protects them are committing cruelty of the highest order I can imagine.
The grandparent poster here is saying that this bullying is a feature not a bug, and that the bullying prepares you for adulthood! I don’t buy any of it, but that’s the counterpoint to what you are saying.
> Adults bully, too, so you do need to learn to handle it. Delaying that learning experience likely has both costs and benefits.
Adults have legal recourse, children don't.
If your workmate hits you, only he'll get fired if you defend yourself. In school, if you hit back at a bully, both parties are placed at fault.
If your company refuses to stop bullying, you can leave and get a huge settlement out of them, which is why they are quick to stop harassment when it is reported. In school, you can't leave, you are forced to endure and the school is never liable for someone mugging you of your lunch money.
> That’s incorrect. Schools can and are sued successfully for not protecting kids from violence and harassment, just as happens in workplaces.
Yeah, and people win lotteries too, and you can find more news stories about lottery winners than about successful suits against schools for turning a blind eye to bullying, but ... that doesn't mean that winning lotteries is the norm.
With the workplace, you also aren't doing an expensive civil suit like you are forced to do with the school - you can cheaply bring your employer to task using your countries employment protections (and associated agencies).
There is no such thing for schools.
In fact, schools punish both aggressor and victims, because it's preferable to having to deal with implicit acceptance of liability by punishing the aggressor only. It's in the schools interest to make sure that victims never come forward (less liability), rather than punishing bullies (more liability).
In the workplace, due to employment laws, it's almost never in the employers interest to protect the bully, like it is in school.
Because if you don't interact with people you can't learn how to interact with people. And this include interacting with people you don't like or which aren't so nice (but just that, not bullies).
The problem isn't schools. It's a bad treatment of social issues at schools (and in society) in many ways.
I mean how messed up is the US that police presence at schools is normal in many areas (and I don't mean just guarding the gate but presence _in_ the schools).
A compromise is to just have smaller schools. I don’t know who came up with the idea to put over 1,000 teenagers together in a building everyday as so many public high schools do in the US, but there are plenty of studies that show it’s a terrible idea.
Please someone tell me again how they don't understand statistics. Suicide is still extremely rare even with schooling. Child abuse is actually more common in homeschool environments, which you apparently wish to ignore. It can be true that homeschooling doesn't properly socialize children AND that there's an astronomically small increased risk of suicide from school attendance.
> In a study of six public school districts, Eagan found that over three academic years, 36 percent of students withdrawn for homeschooling lived in families that had at least one prior accepted report for suspected abuse or neglect from the Department of Children and Families.
The hardest thing home schooled kids have to deal with is communication with public school kids.
Therefore, it's recommended that they speak slowly, and use monosyllabic words in the hope that most public school kids will be able to keep up and understand.
You've been using HN primarily (exclusively?) for ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of which flavor you favor. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
Moreover, you've been breaking the site guidelines in other ways too, such as with unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments, name-calling, and personal attacks.
We ban accounts that do these things. I'm not going to ban you right now because your account has been around for a while and we haven't warned you before, but the pattern in your comment history is definitely not ok and we need you to fix this.
