Seems like the problem with targeting a niche market is that the buyers all have some very specific hard requirements.
It has to have a headphone jack, it has to have wireless charging, it has to have cameras as good as the iphone, it has to have an AV1 video decoder, etc.
Same problem with the Framework laptop. Everyone has a different set of obscure hard requirements.
Which one? The only ones I've been able to find have either terrible reviews, or I ordered it and it turned out to be terrible. "You sound like you're talking to us from under water or behind glass", was my colleagues' description.
Couldn't get a work phone with headphone jack... privately I dread the day where I need a new phone and need to probably forfeit both headphone and microsd to get something that's not seventeen inches in diameter or released more than three years ago so already out of support. Internal storage is overpriced, and I use that headphone port literally every day when falling asleep with an audio book; bluetooth buds are too thick to lay/lean on and would also get lost under the blanket and crushed overnight.
There are "wired" bluetooth earbuds [1], where the bluetooth/electronics hardware is not in the ear-part, but a separate part that is connected to both earbuds by wires.
The Apple ones look like they're those that go into your ear deeply, which you can't lay on (and I don't find comfortable anyway, but during the day that could be a compromise).
The sleep ones cost 170$ O.o
The ones you get for free with some phones, or the cheapest ones from a vending machine, are currently fine. I don't need custom specialty products... or, well, maybe I do, once a new phone without headphone jack is forced upon me in order to have a normal life where I can run the local transport company's app and other such semi-necessities...
I have to be honest, and the first one I bought was outright broken. For the second one I paid more attention to reviews and it was also slightly more expensive. Let me check if I can find the brand
Another downside btw is that you can't charge your phone anymore at the same time. I bought a wireless charger to remedy that but the device gets super hot, thermal protection kicks in, and it starts to throttle the charging. Doesn't seem great for battery longevity. There's devices that combine power and headphone jack into USB-C, but there I couldn't find a single one where the reviews didn't say it broke after two weeks or unusable sound quality or so. I simply miss a separate headphone jack... but this will have to do. Thanks for looking up which one you've got :)
2. USB-C adapters are one extra thing to carry around and easy to lose or forget, unless you just never unplug it, which is cumbersome
3. Many people who were born before the year 2005 (me included) have wired headphones that they prefer and have used for years that still work fine and have the sound quality and comfort that fit our needs.
4. Outside of the smart phone world, 3.5mm audio jacks are still very common and not obsolete
5. Bluetooth is cumbersome on many phones and headphones, introduces latency, and affects audio quality
I wouldn't buy a phone just because it had a headphone jack, but it's definitely a draw for me when a phone does (+ a removable battery or expandable storage, but HN is probably gonna tell me those things are obsolete as well).
2. connect it to the end of your headphones and leave it there
3. do the above
4. buy a good adapter
5. don't use bluetooth and buy an adapter
e: I was a little flippant. Point being: Time has marched on, TVs don't have RCA jacks either. You are an enthusiast and that's fine, I am too, but everyone else has moved on to bluetooth and wifi-enabled speakers and TVs. I'm happy to simply have the option, it's not like half-decent dongles are particularly expensive.
I have an adapter. I still would rather have a phone with an audio jack built-in.
> Time has marched on, TVs don't have RCA jacks either.
Bad comparison. 3.5mm audio is still standard almost everywhere else for audio. RCA jacks are not. Your laptop, speakers, Steam Deck, monitor, and yeah probably your TV still have an audio jack.
> You are an enthusiast and that's fine, I am too, but everyone else has moved on to bluetooth and wifi-enabled speakers and TVs. I'm happy to simply have the option, it's not like half-decent dongles are particularly expensive.
I'm not an enthusiast; I, like probably 90% of the US population, have wired 3.5mm headphones in my home that I like to use with my electronics. It's bonkers to me that people are calling wired headphones obsolete; this makes me think that they either throw away all of their electronics when something new comes out, or are under eighteen years old and have never owned a pair.
I would say less people have moved to wireless for at-home headphones, with many pairs of headphones intended for use with a pc still being wired, so I dont think 'everyone else' has moved 'on' to wireless in all contexts.
It doesn't work anymore because no one cares about audio jacks on their devices, so no manufacturer puts them in. Apple may have started it, but every other manufacturer eventually followed as not enough people complained.
Roughly speaking every laptop on the face of the earth, including every Apple MacBook, has a headphone jack. Speaking of Macs, many of them have very high-quality DACs and amps that can drive quality headphones. Apple has gone out of their way to make the headphone outputs very good.[1] Why then would you occupy one of your maybe two USB ports with an inferior dongle?
"Not enough people complained" is a terrible metric. Companies do anti-consumer nonsense all the time and there is no effective way for the customer to "vote with their wallets" when near enough everyone converges on the same solution.
And why did Apple do it? Don't overthink it -- it is more profitable for Apple not to put headphone jacks in their phones because then they get to sell expensive AirPods. That's it, that's the reason. There have to be millions of super frustrated iPhone users like me out there that are annoyed every single time they have to use a stupid fucking Lightning dongle just to listen to stuff with decent headphones, but Android is not an option for me and the iPhone 7 is too old to be viable, so I just clench my fists in my pockets every time I think about my garbage iPhone (and sometimes whine about it on the internet.)
Removing the headphone jack was bad, is bad, and will forever be bad. Just bring it back. Sell it in the Pro Max as a super audiophile high end DAC thing, I'll pay the $2000 or whatever you want, I don't care, just put the fucking jack back in.
Space is at a premium on mobile and water ingress is a problem, there's no licensing fees to use such a jack and the part itself is absolute peanuts to buy. The real estate they gained by getting rid of the part eventually got filled by something that's almost certainly more expensive.
You don't have to overthink, you just need to think. Why permanently graft a part to a highly space optimized device when it isn't even being used most of the time?
I got over it, you should too. It helps to try to put off the onset of grumpy old man syndrome as long as possible.
I've been enjoying using the headphone jack on my new android phone with the very nice headphones I have. There's nothing to "get over" if you don't want to. Headphone jacks won't be obsolete in my lifetime, even if they mostly disappear from phones.
Why permanently graft a part to a highly space optimized device when it isn't even being used most of the time?
I mean, that's a valid way to view it, but I doubt it was an engineering decision first and foremost. Hanlon's razor applies: 1) Apple makes a ton of money from selling AirPods and 2) this decision was made during the Jony Ive era of "remove literally everything that is not strictly necessary just because fewer ports is more aesthetically pleasing". Under these conditions, of course they would remove the headphone jack. It's Apple doing Apple shit.
But: people used the same arguments -- less ports saves space, who needs it, etc -- to argue that the HDMI port, MagSafe, and decent keyboards would never come back. But they did, in MacBooks that were thicker than the previous generation. Sometimes you can teach old dogs new tricks.
They could have polled the market to see what it wants: release an iPhone that has a headphone jack and is slightly bigger if needed, and a slim one that doesn't have one. This will never happen, and that is my point: you or I will never know if people care, because people never had the ability to choose.
The fact of the matter is that phones that still have headphone jacks don't sell that well. There's always something else that demanders of that feature find wrong with them.
You can list things as much as you want, but the market shows that almost noone puts their money where their mouth is once a phone with a jack is launched.
> The fact of the matter is that phones that still have headphone jacks don't sell that well. There's always something else that demanders of that feature find wrong with them.
This likely has more to do with the fact that the only phones that have headphone jacks are low-end "cheap" phones with worse specs everywhere else. If the new Galaxy came out with a headphone jeack, I don't think their sales would suddenly tank.
I didn't buy a fairphone 4/5 having previously bought a fp3 that got broken mostly beyond repair. I didnt buy the updated version as it didnt have a headphone jack. I opted for a used phone instead.
It flies in the face of claiming to care for repairability and sustainability. Wireless earbuds (maybe including the ones they sell) I by and large dont have replaceable batteries. That isnt sustainable.
If my USBC jack breaks from wear and tear being in my pocket with a cable attached to them, I no longer have a working phone and need to buy a part to fix it, if the headphone jack breaks, I can live without headphones and still have a functional phone. If the selling point is sustainability, they miss the mark by creating extraneous rubbish, even if its not direct
I consistently bought Galaxies until they got rid of the headphone jack, and switched to an Xperia when they did. Like, yes, there are other features that I pay attention to too, but I've empirically demonstrated a willingness to switch brands and pay more for the sake of a headphone jack. It does matter.
I've had phones where I needed a USB-C to jack adapter, and I'm not buying another one. I don't often use headphones with my phone, but 95% of the time, I'm on a plane and I'd like to stay charged while I watch my movie. It's also really easy to leave the dongle on the plane, so that's annoying too.
not the other guy, but... any advice how to find a decent usb-c to audio jack dongle? i've ordered a cheap one and it's absolutely unusable, horrible sound quality and constant noticeable static. not feeling like gambling on another one.
Apple's USB-C to headphone dongle works on Android, I believe, and is regularly reviewed to have the same audio quality as comparably expensive DACs. It's $9
It doesn't receive enough power on Android for some reason, you'll find the max volume it can push out much lower than other dongles. It also doesn't support volume buttons on Android. Can't fault the sound quality though.
It does sound good, but not very durable. I got one recently because i got a phone without a headphone jack foolishly thinking I'd just buy an adapter and it broke the second time I used it, just making clicking noises.
Safe to assume you're in the US? In EU, or another country with reasonable return policy, I'd buy such a dongle in an electronics shops, try it on the spot and refund if it's non comformant.
Maybe I phrased myself wrong. The actual law in EU countries is that you can return products "no questions asked" within 14 days of purchase. In this context non comformant might mean either doesn't work, or I don't like it.
If that's the case in the US, I've learned something new. Generally, based on comments, there seem to be fewer consumer protection laws over there.
europe, but i ordered it online and shipping it back just isnt worth the effort. i guess it's a decent idea, but physical stores around here just add such a massive markup, sometimes triple the price....
This is a terrible comparison, I don’t know about others but I use headphones multiple times per day and needing an adapter is an unnecessary annoyance
Personally, I've never met anyone who had a need for reading floppy disks or connecting their computer printer to their phone, but I know many people who like to listen to music with their wired headphones on the go.
bluetooth headphones/audio have a long list of problems, but I generally don't want to enable bluetooth on my phones at all. It's used extensively for tracking and can log your location at a distance of within a foot from where the beacon is placed or from over 20 miles away. That means I need a headphone jack.
People use headphones for phone calls not just videos. The delay is annoying. Mobile phones already have lag compared to land phones and BT makes it worse.
How many current phones have a headphone jack? When I upgraded from my Pixel 4a to the 6a (both running Graphene OS) I never noticed that the headphone jack was "missing" because I use a Bose bluetooth headset. And when I want to route the audio through my car speakers? Oh... I have a USB-C pigtail splitter which allows for power to be passed through another UBS-C port and connection to the car audio system through a 3.5mm TRS connector.
Anecdata, but I suspect my current issues with charging my iphone are due to wear on the charging port from using the lightning -> headphone adapter. When looking for a new phone I noticed that many sony phones still provide headphone jacks on their higher end models (xperia 5v, 10v) but generally it seems relegated to cheaper android phones.
I hate the waste generated from having battery powered headphones, and generally dislike the batterification of so many products these days. Wires can be messy but they are usually replaceable and I don't have to worry about properly disposing of them as much as I would for an item with a LiON battery.
IIRC the xperia phones are just as water/dustproof as the pixels/iphones so not really sure why we had to give up the port other than for maybe a mm of thinness and a reason to sell a new series of audio devices to consumers.
I used Xperia phones for years. However I gave up as if it doesn't come from t-mobile it didn't support all the towers (tmobile uses some weird frequencies in the US) and I'd end up in dead zones all over. Great phones, but too much friction to keep using them.
I almost bought one recently because they are literally the only new phone model that has both of: a headphone jack and no camera cutout. Unfortunately, it seemed like support on google fi was hacky and partial at best (and it wasn't 100% clear you could get it to work at all).
I ended up going with the pixel 4, which was the newest phone I could fine that at least didn't have a camera cutout.
I have since discovered that in android developer options, you can choose to give up the screen real estate around teh cutout to effectively hide it. Given this, in the future, I'll look for phones that have a jack, worrying less about the cutout.
If the Fairphone ever comes to the US with full support, I would strongly consider it, even though I _really_ want a headphone jack. I think that for a fully repairable phone, I might be willing to trade.
It appears like my ideal phone is probably never going to exist again, so I'm going to have to compromise on something.
I wish it was easier to parse/compare the supported cell frequencies list from phone/gsm arena. Especially for devices more targeted at non US markets you can end up missing a lot of useful frequencies. I guess part of the issue is how non standard the US cell networks tend to be (iirc our 5g is also a little weird compared to the rest of the world)
It's one of the things I feel like iPhone does right supporting most frequencies even for US models. The new mandatory eSIM on it makes it a no-go for me though when I travel to Europe and want to buy a SIM card at the airport/corner store.
I.really want a works anywhere in the world phone that supports them all. I.travel once in a while and I want my phone to work (and reasonable roaming in every country)
Looking at the GSM Arena Phone Finder [1], there's currently 494 cataloged phones released in 2023, and 286 of them have headphone jacks. I won't buy a phone without one, as I want to charge and listen to the movie I'm watching on a plane, and I'm not doing wireless headsets because I hate bluetooth and I hate unnecessary audio latency.
This feels misleading. As soon as you add a minimum price, there are 236 phones---implying those are probably prohibitively difficult to buy in the U.S. or West Europe.
Cursory browsing... There's Infinix (serves mostly Africa and Asia) and Tecno (popular in India) and a few other brands that are mainly released in Asia. Beyond that, can you really count all 14 "Redmi" as separate phones when some only differentiate "5G" or "not 5G"? Same with various "Fan" or "VIP" editions, which typically tweak one or two peripherals?
Are you really in the market for vivo, Realme, TCL, Oukitel? Or a specialist/rugged brand like Ulefone or Doogee?
Ironically, the most popular handset made outside of China for a worldwide market is the Galaxy A24, which has a horrendous single on-board speaker. So much for audiophilia! (In fairness, as soon as you restrict Chinese and Hong Kong headsets, you're down to just a few brands. Weird tangent, it's nice to see Nokia putting out spec-competitive mid-market Android phones. I might get one next because Asus and Sony are sticking with two OS upgrades.)
From that, I can fathom that headphone jacks are largely bullshit features tacked on to devkit-derived bargain bin phones, which creates a huge peak in jacked sub-$150 units. From $300 up, where you expect good peripheral selection and a normal Android experience, it's clear that headphone jacks are in the minority.
I was in the same boat: gotta have headphone jack. The best player here was LG. Keyword: was. Now I'm convinced that until phone makers actually prioritize wired audio, the better path forward (and which won't be long-term obsolete) is picking the smartphone with the best overall specs/support plus a USB splitter and whichever grade of USB DAC you prefer to drive your headphones. It's easier for the manufacturer to waterproof their case and gives more room for battery, etc. This also lets you quickly transfer your preferred hardware to a tablet/laptop/desktop, which seems like a pain unless you're in love with something high-impedance like HD600, ATH-R70, DT990, etc.
I need a headphone jack. My car doesn't have an aux input (I have to use a cassette adapter), let alone Bluetooth. It's 20 years old, yes, but it's not that uncommon to have a car that old.
More importantly, even if I didn't need one I would still want one. A headphone jack is a universal connection for audio, Bluetooth is not. And wired headphones are strictly superior to wireless headphones, as they don't need to be charged and can't be lost as easily.
Their are usb-c to jack adapter, some allowing usb-c passthrough for charging, otherr being full blown otg cable with usb-c, usb-a and TRS (the real name for jack). You would leave it attached on the cable that stay attached to your car and you would be fine.
Also, there are wired usb-c headphones, my partner is using one.
Nobody needs a smartphone; a dumbphone would suffice for most people. We buy smartphones because we want them. For my personal use case I have an expensive pair of headphones which I used to use (lasted over a decade so far) with my Nexus 6P and while using an amp/DAC is better; it's just more convenient to plug and play.
Don't know about you, but without Maps I'd be completely lost. Also, all gov services in my country (Estonia) require Smart ID, which requires a smartphone. So if I want to log into my bank account, sign documents, look at my medical records, do tax declarations, manage my business information, manage car parking, and so on and so on, I will need a smartphone. I suppose I could use the oldschool physical ID card and a ID card reader for my computer, but then I'd not be able to do anything on the go, and I'm certainly not going to carry a computer with me to be able to pay for car parking.
I'd say being able to live without a smartphone is only in third-world countries at this point, and less and less even there. In Argentina, everything from government services to booking a hair salon appointment to viewing restaurant menus is done via Whatsapp and QR codes, for example.
What you've described are conveniences, which in essence was what my comment was about. A headphone jack is a convenience. It is inconvenient to use a dongle to convert from USB-C to 3.5mm, just as it is inconvenient to go down to your local government branch to change your address. You could do it, but you'd probably much rather just use your phone. You could ask the restaurant staff for a physical menu, but it's probably more convenient to scan the QR code.
I won't be able to pay in most parking places. There's no government office to show up at for that. I also don't think I can manage my business information in any offline way - the most manual form of that requires (electronically) signed forms to be sent via e-mail. So while I agree, some things you probably can do without, others in a 2023 Northern European society you really can't. If I wanted to live life with a dumbphone nowadays, I'd have to move to a less advanced part of the world.
Yours is the country that’s now vulnerable, not the "less developed third-world." No one should be depending on fragile insecure multiple-points of failure technology for 100% of life. You’re one invasion, terrorist/cyberattack, or solar flare away from armageddon.
Even just the power out for a few days after a storm and you’re done during that time. I can think of additional failure modes.
There are definitely some parkings where you can only pay with a smartphone. The worst is when they force you to download a shitty app. Super fun when the parking does not have good reception and you have to download an unnecessarily large app over 3G.
I've also been to random parking lots in the middle of nowhere with a cardboard sign saying "Venmo $5/hour at X".
Hard disagree. Not having some kind of device (be that a smart phone, tablet or laptop) is going to make life very difficult, particularly if you have to access any kind of government service in the developed world. Might be different in the US but in the UK almost everything is digital or moving to digital. For example if you're claiming benefits because you're unemployed in the UK then you would be expected to both apply online and log in to an online portal and register all your jobseeking activities which your job advisor will then review to determine if you're putting in enough effort. Failure to do this would result in your unemployment benefits being withdrawn. If you don't own your own device, the only other option would be to go down to the local library where you normally have to pay fees if you're using the computer over 30/60 mins depending on the local authority. If you're having to do this on a regular basis then it's far more economical to own your own device. This is just one example of many.
Of all the things which should be accessible without internet, government services should pretty much be number 1 on the list. Especially unemployment benefits, because how is someone without a job going to afford a device which can access the internet plus the corresponding internet access?
Yeah I completely agree but this is the current reality of modern day UK and I highly doubt it will change. If you don't have a device they literally expect you to go to the library or to the job centre to log your activity data. They may have some kind of device loaning scheme but I have no idea. The sad reality is that the majority of jobs only accept online applications now as well. Hence why I think we're now at the point where a smart phone is no longer a luxury and pretty much a necessity to navigate life in a developed country or at least the UK.
Anyone who wants to listen to music with headphones and doesn't want to be tracked via bluetooth. Bluetooth tracking beacons are used extensively and can log your location within a foot of where the beacon is placed or from as far as 20 miles away.
Bluetooth also increases your security risk. There have already been several exploits with bluetooth over the years.
* Pairing UX is unreliable and has corner cases that even Apple hasn't solved and they're probably the best case. 1/8" is predictable and reliable (and doesn't require extra thought / kit to make sure you can power at the same time).
* Battery life isn't an issue for wired headphones.
* Latency is unacceptable for some use cases (mostly specialized audio), and sometimes audio quality is degraded too.
I like wireless audio, (especially for workout listening) but I miss the headphone jack on my original iphone 5 SE at least once a week.
I can't instantly switch audio inputs to my phone with Bluetooth when I'm in an unfamiliar location. If there's a jack I can plug in and play music in seconds. If it's bluetooth... could be 30 seconds, could be 5-10 minutes before I can get the bluetooth working. Meanwhile the music is off. Maybe I just wanted to share one song, but I've possibly killed the party. Not even worth the risk. Headphone jacks are really excellent and just work. I've lost hours of my life troubleshooting Bluetooth.
I prefer wired headsets in general though I do have some bluetooth earbuds. I prefer my headset in the winter. And I'd prefer not to buy a new headset.
