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We're retiring later and later, working more per week, purchasing power is going down, quality of goods is going down, life expectancy is decreasing, child mortality is increasing, teenage suicide is increasing, illiteracy is increasing, &c.

But trust us this time we'll do incredible things, the same things but more of it, faster and cheaper, will automatically make things amazing!

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Crime rates going down and down. Purchasing power grows everywhere in the world (but we want much nicer things now, so don't feel it). Travel is more accessible that it ever was in humanity history. Information keeps getting more and more accessible.

And literacy rates are increasing. I don't know why you say it's not, just google "literacy rates trend".


Efficiency gains have primarily benefited the capital owners. Workers ability to buy essentials like housing and healthcare have not gotten worse, not better.

I can cover every wall of my living space in flat screen color television more cheaply than feed, house, heal, and educate another child in my family.


I started reading about the industrial revolutions and the evolution of capitalism recently. And it is my understanding that something similar was happening around the second industrial revolution - normal people barely making a living while owners of massive factories and other "means of production" getting richer rand richer.

That's why communism got so popular in some places and why after capitalism won, it demonized communism so much that people now think those are the only two options and communism is the bad one so capitalism must be the good one.

There are other options like mutualism or market socialism and people (including me until recently) have never heard of them.

Cooperatives exist and most people don't even know what that word means.

We need a system where ownership of both the means of production and more importantly the product goes to the workers. If production is more effective with an assistant ("manager") overseeing them, then can hire one and negotiate his salary collectively. If they need an investment, they can quantify the risk and agree how much the investor gets in return after how long but it should not give the investor a massive chunk of or complete ownership - at most it should give small ownership according to his hourly rate compared to other workers.


No, travel and information accessibility and crime rates benefited everyone.

> Purchasing power grows everywhere in the world

Sure consumer goods are cheaper, but I don't need more "stuff". The essentials I need for my family: food, energy, housing, and most importantly time are much less accessible. Sure, we could buy bulk, move to a LCOL area and work remote, but not everyone can do that.

This is the trend that a lot of people in my generation complain about.


> Crime rates going down and down.

This scares me. Humans are getting so domesticated and docile they might soon be content with being pets. I am not sure US independence or French revolution could happen today.

I am obviously not a fan of crime against other peaceful individuals. But crime against an oppressive regime is still crime by that regime's rules.


> We're retiring later and later, working more per week

That may be true. But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it? Hell no.

> purchasing power is going down

That is not a new thing.

> quality of goods is going down

Phones are better. Computers are better. Cars, planes, washing machines ...

> life expectancy is decreasing

On the whole, this is not the case.

> child mortality is increasing

Globally?

> illiteracy is increasing

Globally?

You seem to have a negative view of things. And sure, many things are not great. But the examples you gave are not it.


Ya some people don't know the difference between their country falling apart versus the world falling apart.

What does it matter the world gets better when your neighbors do worse?

If all but one of my neighbors were improving, why would I focus on the one that insists on repeatedly shooting itself in the dick?

The other people in the world who aren’t your neighbors are also people.

But no one in their right mind cares more about other people in the world more than about himself and those closest to him.

> their country

Not even, I was taking the US as an example because they're at the front of this "tech will deliver us" hypothesis


> But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it? Hell no.

If given a choice I would rather be born in 1940s. 80 years of relative peace, prosperity, cheap education, cheap housing, only single parent needs to work, stronger community network, less overpopulation, better access to doctors, better wealth equality, and you get to partake in the first generation of computers before computers became a method of spying and manipulation of purchasing decisions. Honestly I would much rather be hacking on v6 unix than what I am currently doing.

Sign me up.


Would you want to be born a girl in the 1940s? How about as a non white person? And that is assuming you were even born in the US.

Before women had the ability to be professionals earning real money, or access to birth control and many, many other types of healthcare specific to women. Before no fault divorce and before rape within marriage was outlawed?

Decades before the Civil Rights Act and Jim Crow laws still existed?

> better access to doctors

I would take a nurse today over a doctor from the 1940s. The amount of advancement in healthcare between 1940 to today, even just over the counter stuff or information wise from online searches is tremendous.


> Would you want to be born a girl in the 1940s?

My grandma was born in the 40s and said it was better back then.

> Decades before the Civil Rights Act and Jim Crow laws still existed?

I don’t live in the USA so that is irrelevant.

Also, keep in mind I still have over half my life to live and the future seems very uncertain. Maybe I am a pessimist, but I would take 1940-2020 which I now know in hindsight was a pretty decent time to live compared to whatever the next 40 years holds. Maybe I am wrong and we will magically cure cancer, solve wealth inequality, 20 hour work weeks due to automation, and stay WW3.


> My grandma was born in the 40s and said it was better back then.

My grandma was also, and she will tell you women should not have as many rights as men. And that periods make women unclean. And kids should have to follow their parents’ religion. And corporal punishment for kids is okay. And daughter in laws should defer to parents’ in laws.

> Maybe I am wrong and we will magically cure cancer

Quality of life after a cancer diagnosis is leaps and bounds better today than it was in decades past. Setting the standard at what I presume is “take this pill and you never have to worry about cancer again” seems like a good way to disappoint yourself.

> Also, keep in mind I still have over half my life to live and the future seems very uncertain.

Things might very well be trending down, but they can still be better than the past in some ways, and worse in some ways.


> Things might very well be trending down, but they can still be better than the past in some ways, and worse in some ways.

Maybe, I would take a guaranteed pretty good 80 years over the next 40-50 years where things are trending downwards. And for all we know, the past 80 years were a fluke caused by WW2 and the carbon impulse happening at the same time.


„only single parent needs to work”

I always wondered how much truth that was.

Turns out in 1950’s it was true for 65% of households. In 1960’s it dropped to 40% then in 70’s to 30% and in 90’s it landed at 20%.

So while you could support a family on a single income, it still was quite far from universally true and only most likely in the 50’s.


>If given a choice I would rather be born in 1940s. 80 years of relative peace,

I think after you got your draft notice in the 1960s to go fight in the Vietnam war, you might have had second thoughts.


I am Canadian, so no I wouldn’t be going to Nam.

But when meeting friends, you’d have to agree in advance to a spot and time and wait aimlessly, so many times in the day. Then you’d pick up smoking or reading depending on your character.

Sounds wonderful.

The monkey's paw curls, and you are born as any of the many many many people who did not have access to any of those things lol.

We've passed 7 of 9 climate tipping points so there's that. What kind of view do you expect a person to have if they pay any sort of attention?

> But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it?

This question always implies "to the high middle ages, or to 300CE". Of course I wouldn't. But to the 1990s? Probably I would.


Not globally, just in the place we let these things run at full speed without regulations: the US

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If you work most jobs, whether cognitive or manual labor, after some point you can't do them anymore, due to physical and cognitive decline, medical issues, and the plain fact that you can do that shit as a hobby if you really like it, but you shouldn't need to go to some fucking office or greet people in your local Walmart in your late 60s and 70s just to survive.

We call this stopping of work at that point retirement.

How about that?


Retirement is the withdrawal from active working life, i.e. having a job. It is not a US concept.

Right, and a nice thing about software is that retirement doesn’t mean you have to stop doing what you used to do.

I’m retired (I know, I’m very lucky), and I’ve done as much or more coding since retirement than I did in my job. But to be fair, AI has really changed how I’m going about things, and I’m not sure what the future is going to bring. I really worry about my adult children and their careers.


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The notion that one's economic output is equal to one's worth as a person seems pretty wrong-headed, when considering what the purpose of life is.

>when considering what the purpose of life is.

And what is that exactly?

At best we seem to be rather large containers to ensure that genes get replicated.


That's for us to decide as individuals.

How can something be both wrong and subjective?

When the definition is presupposed by somebody else without qualification.

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What point are you trying to make?

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When your job and commute is 70% of your awake time I can assure you are very well defined by your job

Only if your life is so insignificant and your interests and social circle so narrow that your paid gig determines the whole of it and is your sole purpose.

But if it ain't so, there is effectively no retirement?

Not having a job anymore is very different from not "doing things" at all.

So you're telling me that if you won $1b tomorrow you wouldn't know what to do besides continuing your 9 to 5 until you die?

It's the part where you stop being a wage slave and can enjoy some freedom, I know, such an alien concept



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